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	<title>Comments for Mathematics and Computation</title>
	<link>http://math.andrej.com</link>
	<description>Mathematics for computers</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Sometimes all functions are continuous by Constructive and Classical Mathematics &#60; Inductio Ex Machina</title>
		<link>http://math.andrej.com/2006/03/27/sometimes-all-functions-are-continuous/#comment-7929</link>
		<dc:creator>Constructive and Classical Mathematics &#60; Inductio Ex Machina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://math.andrej.com/2006/03/27/sometimes-all-functions-are-continuous/#comment-7929</guid>
		<description>[...] of mathematics &#8212; denying all but the computable real numbers and functions, thereby making all functions continuous &#8212; but it is a tempting view of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of mathematics &#8212; denying all but the computable real numbers and functions, thereby making all functions continuous &#8212; but it is a tempting view of the [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on First Steps in Synthetic Computability Theory (Fischbachau) by Andrej Bauer</title>
		<link>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/18/first-steps-in-synthetic-computability-theory-fischbachau/#comment-7818</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrej Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/18/first-steps-in-synthetic-computability-theory-fischbachau/#comment-7818</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely correct. This is a good constructive proof that there exists a non-r.e. subset of N. I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote my comment. As you noticed, we need to make the statement stronger: "Prove that there is a function `NN -&gt; {0,1}` (defined &lt;em&gt;everywhere&lt;/em&gt; on `NN`!) which is not computed by any Turing machine". In your proof, pinpoint the use of classical logic. (Note: it is possible to avoid classical logic in this case by using non-classical Brouwerian axioms. But you cannot prove the statement straight in constructive mathematics because constructive mathematics is consistent with Formalized Church's Thesis.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely correct. This is a good constructive proof that there exists a non-r.e. subset of N. I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote my comment. As you noticed, we need to make the statement stronger: &#8220;Prove that there is a function `NN -> {0,1}` (defined <em>everywhere</em> on `NN`!) which is not computed by any Turing machine&#8221;. In your proof, pinpoint the use of classical logic. (Note: it is possible to avoid classical logic in this case by using non-classical Brouwerian axioms. But you cannot prove the statement straight in constructive mathematics because constructive mathematics is consistent with Formalized Church&#8217;s Thesis.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on First Steps in Synthetic Computability Theory (Fischbachau) by Sridhar Ramesh</title>
		<link>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/18/first-steps-in-synthetic-computability-theory-fischbachau/#comment-7815</link>
		<dc:creator>Sridhar Ramesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/18/first-steps-in-synthetic-computability-theory-fischbachau/#comment-7815</guid>
		<description>(Sorry, I know this is a very old comment to reply to, but it caught my eye)

Did you mean to say "prove there exists an element of 2^N which is not recursively enumerable" instead, or have some particular constructive system in mind more restrictive than intuitionistic logic? To be explicit, it seems to me the following serves as an intuitionistically acceptable proof that there exists a non-r.e. subset of N:

Let Halt(a, b) mean that the program coded by a halts on input b. Consider {x &#124; ~Halt(x, x)}. If this were r.e. (i.e., semidecidable), then there would be some p such that Halt(p, x) is equivalent to ~Halt(x, x) for all x. But then, Halt(p, p) would be equivalent to ~Halt(p, p), a contradiction (even intuitionistically). Thus, we can conclude, {x &#124; ~Halt(x, x)} is non-r.e.

The only thing which we wouldn't be able to do intuitionistically, it seems to me, is go on to conclude that this set has a 2-valued characteristic function. I'm almost certain you just made a small typo, but just in case not, have I missed some flaw in the above ostensibly constructive proof?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Sorry, I know this is a very old comment to reply to, but it caught my eye)</p>
<p>Did you mean to say &#8220;prove there exists an element of 2^N which is not recursively enumerable&#8221; instead, or have some particular constructive system in mind more restrictive than intuitionistic logic? To be explicit, it seems to me the following serves as an intuitionistically acceptable proof that there exists a non-r.e. subset of N:</p>
<p>Let Halt(a, b) mean that the program coded by a halts on input b. Consider {x | ~Halt(x, x)}. If this were r.e. (i.e., semidecidable), then there would be some p such that Halt(p, x) is equivalent to ~Halt(x, x) for all x. But then, Halt(p, p) would be equivalent to ~Halt(p, p), a contradiction (even intuitionistically). Thus, we can conclude, {x | ~Halt(x, x)} is non-r.e.</p>
<p>The only thing which we wouldn&#8217;t be able to do intuitionistically, it seems to me, is go on to conclude that this set has a 2-valued characteristic function. I&#8217;m almost certain you just made a small typo, but just in case not, have I missed some flaw in the above ostensibly constructive proof?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Proof hacking by luchia</title>
		<link>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/16/proof-hacking/#comment-7773</link>
		<dc:creator>luchia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://math.andrej.com/2005/09/16/proof-hacking/#comment-7773</guid>
		<description>Hallo,

The nice idea of Andrej presented in this post, was of great inspiration in writing:
http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~chiarabi/research/Papers/Articolo%20Bauer/versione_articolo.pdf
(next CIE08). The application of such proof transformation to inductive proofs on naturals
permit to extract "tail" recursive code. Other authors investigated such
possibility, like Penny Anderson(1994), but their method were extremely much more complicated.
Here the proposed proof transformation is clear and simple. There is a point that is not yet
fully investigated: how to link such transformation to CPS? CPS is the canonical program-transformation to obtain tail recursion in programming. I think is possible to write
a CPS on proofs, that take into account also proof by inductions, acting extractly as the
proof transformation presented here. Ciao,  Luca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallo,</p>
<p>The nice idea of Andrej presented in this post, was of great inspiration in writing:<br />
<a href="http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~chiarabi/research/Papers/Articolo%20Bauer/versione_articolo.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~chiarabi/research/Papers/Articolo%20Bauer/versione_articolo.pdf</a><br />
(next CIE08). The application of such proof transformation to inductive proofs on naturals<br />
permit to extract &#8220;tail&#8221; recursive code. Other authors investigated such<br />
possibility, like Penny Anderson(1994), but their method were extremely much more complicated.<br />
Here the proposed proof transformation is clear and simple. There is a point that is not yet<br />
fully investigated: how to link such transformation to CPS? CPS is the canonical program-transformation to obtain tail recursion in programming. I think is possible to write<br />
a CPS on proofs, that take into account also proof by inductions, acting extractly as the<br />
proof transformation presented here. Ciao,  Luca</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Programming Languages Zoo by Andrej Bauer</title>
		<link>http://math.andrej.com/2008/05/06/the-programming-languages-zoo/#comment-7334</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrej Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 22:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://math.andrej.com/2008/05/06/the-programming-languages-zoo/#comment-7334</guid>
		<description>I have added a &lt;a href="/2008/05/07/an-object-oriented-language-boa/" rel="nofollow"&gt;boa&lt;/a&gt; to the zoo. It is an object-oriented language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have added a <a href="/2008/05/07/an-object-oriented-language-boa/" rel="nofollow">boa</a> to the zoo. It is an object-oriented language.</p>
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